Emily: 0:00

Welcome to wellness. Miss the podcast where we take a hard look at the nutrition and wellness industry through a no bullshit lens. My name is, and I'm an anti-intuitive eating ed diet and yoga.

Vanessa: 0:13

And my name's Vanessa. I am also a registered dietician and I specialize in hormone. Emily. And I met back in college when we were studying to be dieticians and we basically never left each other's side. Since the moment we met and post grad, we haven't really left each other's side either we live across the country from each other, but that hasn't stopped us from being business partners and talking almost every minute of every day.

Emily: 0:40

Let's get into this week's episode.

Vanessa: 0:56

Hey Am, I feel like a little bit feral right now because one, I feel like we just haven't recorded in a long time. But also the sun is out in Michigan, which is like really big news and. Oh my gosh. Look at you. Your curls in the sunlight. But so yes, that's all making me feel a little bit feral and some like people in Michigan go wild when the sun comes out, especially this time of year. And I just like looked out my window and there was this older couple and like the husband was driving this e-bike and the wife was like sitting on the back, like holding up

Emily: 1:36

Wow.

Vanessa: 1:38

like these people were like probably in their seventies, like not a

Emily: 1:41

Oh my God.

Vanessa: 1:43

yeah. Like this one was like hanging on for dear life

Emily: 1:46

Oh my

Vanessa: 1:47

out for like a sunny evening ride, which I was like, get after it kids, but don't hurt yourselves.

Emily: 1:53

Wow. Oh my God.

Vanessa: 1:55

It was truly wild.

Emily: 1:57

you'll have to get out there after this

Vanessa: 1:59

Yeah, I'm excited too. Anyway, today we are talking about matcha. And I would love a matcha right now, but it's a little bit too late and I'm already feeling feral, so that would probably not be great. But I would love one.

Emily: 2:15

I can already tell you definitely don't need it.

Vanessa: 2:17

Well, and so funny story too, yesterday I was, and I texted Emily this a little bit, but I was doing my research and so in full disclosure before we start this episode, I like matcha. I do not buy it because I don't have a wash. Wa I almost said Waka. A matcha I don't have a matcha whisk. Cause I was thinking whisk Emily Whisk and

Emily: 2:42

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting it.

Vanessa: 2:44

I don't have a matcha whisk. And like in my head that was just like too big of a barrier to entry and I just like was gonna be forever a person that had to go out for my match. And so yesterday I was like, you know, maybe I should just like look on Amazon and a matcha whisk is like$10 on Amazon. So this has been barring me, like from ma making matcha at home, but literally it's been$10,$10 between me and homemade matcha.

Emily: 3:16

When you compare like the price of matcha to like the whisk, like is this like match's a really expensive product? I feel like that's like the major thing that I wanna say at the beginning is like, matcha is really expensive and there's so many different kinds, which we're gonna get into. But that's definitely like kind of the biggest like barrier to putting this in your wellness practice. And I think like it's one of those things that. you know, because like influencers have like discount codes for matcha and like, cuz it's a pretty color and it like, looks cool in photographs. Like, I think automatically a lot of people might just like completely write it off. Like it's another athletic greens or like bloom or something, which that's like the new one. Bloom. Maybe I should do an episode on that. But

Vanessa: 3:59

I haven't heard of Bloom.

Emily: 4:01

yeah, it's like all over TikTok for sure.

Vanessa: 4:04

Mm. I'm not a TikTok.

Emily: 4:06

But the benefits of matcha definitely go beyond looking cool on Instagram or finding a referral link through an influencer. And there's a bit of research on it. So we're gonna share that with y'all today.

Vanessa: 4:19

Yeah, so actually one of the questions that we got on Instagram was about if matcha powders, if they're all created equal. So we will definitely be answering that too. And then another question we got was about adding sweeteners and milk, so we can talk about that as well. I just wanna make sure to recognize that we will touch on those things.

Emily: 4:41

For sure. And matcha is something that has been around a really long time, and it actually can be traced back to China in the seventh to 10th centuries. They used to steam the tea leaves and then they turned them into bricks so they could easily trade them. So it originally came from China, but then Japan sort of perfected the process and now it's kind of known as more of a Japanese thing. Origin wise, I thought that was really interest.

Vanessa: 5:06

Yeah, that is interesting. I did not know that. Little bit of macho. So, um, if you're curious what matcha is, so if you have no idea at all so matcha is a green tea. It's just grown in a little bit of a different way. So that green tea gets covered about 20 to 30 days before they cultivate it. And by covering it, it actually makes the plant produce more chlorophyll. And it gives it. Slightly more bitter taste and creates some more antioxidants as well. So it matcha is green tea on steroids kind of, I think would be a good way to describe it.

Emily: 5:47

Yeah,

Vanessa: 5:47

Something else about matcha too is the, one of the reasons it has more benefits than green tea, which at no hate on green tea. Green tea is great. It has a ton of benefits, but the reason that matcha is going to have more is with green tea. You're steeping it into your hot water with a matcha, you're eating like the whole. So you're essentially like pulverizing it into the water versus just steeping it so you're consuming all of it, if that makes sense.

Emily: 6:21

Yeah, totally. And I think that's why you need the whisk, because otherwise like the powder just kind of clumps up and it's terrible. Like you really need like the bamboo. Because otherwise it's just, it's not great. I actually found that once I found 137 times more antioxidants in matcha than green tea, and I don't think that's a knock against green tea. Like it's just a really good. Advertisement for matcha. And there's a ton of different benefits. Like antioxidants are always helpful in your body. They help with chronic issues. They have anti-cancer properties. And there's a lot of interesting things about weight loss and mati. I don't know if you saw this when you were looking at your research.

Vanessa: 7:05

I didn't say as much about weight loss but I feel like that's something that's always in the conversation with green tea. Cuz green tea usually we're always talking about weight loss or like green tea extract. That a lot of times be, a lot of times is part of the conversation.

Emily: 7:22

Yeah. And a lot of tees are supposed to jumpstart weight loss or support weight loss, but most of the time when they do these studies, they can't really pinpoint why. And also like a lot of the times these people are also making other lifestyle change interventions that might lead to weight loss as well. And. So overall, like studies can show, has a positive effect on weight loss, but we don't really know exactly why. Nothing can like totally change your body's whole metabolism. And like we always say, you're coming from like, everyone's coming from a different metabolism. Everyone's coming from a different experience. You know, your food intake exercise, your genetics, like, there's so many different factors with weight and that's why like, it's not easily studied with this too. And what I really think too is like when I see the positive effect of matcha on weight loss, I'm like, is it because that in most of these studies, they're having over 300 milligrams of caffeine per day, like in the form of matcha. It's such a big appetite suppressant. And so I, I kind of wonder if that's something to do with it or, you know, it might be helping with people's, like boredom eating. I don't know. Those are just my own personal conjectures, but there's definitely a lot of interesting research floating around about.

Vanessa: 8:33

Yeah. Yeah, I, something interesting too is, so green tea in general is consumed in a lot of parts of the world and you know, like Emily said, matcha has a big history. It's kind of like the US just found out about. like, just found out it was cool, wanted to make it a trend, but it is, it is not new by any means. We are appropriating as we do, and I mean, in many parts of the world, they are drinking green tea regularly. And we see this especially in Blue Zones. So blue zones are the places around the world where we see the highest amount of centurions or people that are living two or past 100. And so. we, you know, look at things like green tea and we think, is this a compelling argument? Is this part of the picture as to why you know, these people are living so long and a lot of times, I mean, it's never just one thing like we want it to be, I'm gonna, you know, start drinking matcha and then I'm gonna live till I'm 300. And I would love that to be the prescription. And I think that yes, matcha is very, very healthy. Like Emily mentioned, it has a ton of antiox. It's something that is very good for you, and if you like it, absolutely add it into your diet. If you like it, you can afford it. it's going to be beneficial. Will that alone make you live to a hundred or is that why people are living to a hundred? Probably not. It's part of the picture. Yes. Is it just the antioxidants? Antioxidants might be part of the picture. Part of the picture might be that they're sitting down for a cup of tea and that's a relaxing and, you know, de-stressing event that a lot of us do not partake.

Emily: 10:16

and you kind of have to see like there's, there's a lot of. Data that we have now about tea, like, oh, camel tea can help with diabetes. Like all these small issues that, you know, people might be having. You know, there's even some small data about hibiscus tea and blood pressure. But a lot of this is like folks with just like slightly elevated blood sugar or slightly elevated blood pressure. It's not like, oh, this is gonna cure like this huge, large ailment you have. Because Asma said there's so many different factors. So it's really hard to be like, okay, this is the one like magic thing that you could have. But there is research to back up that matcha is helpful for you overall.

Vanessa: 10:52

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think something that people are probably wondering. Is like, should I drink coffee or should I drink matcha? Which one is better for me? And that's always an interesting argument or interesting way to think about things because both can have benefits if consumed in the right way. Like if you drink matcha, but you're putting like. Three sugars in it and it's half milk, then like you're probably eliminating a lot of the, or not eliminating, but you're not going to be getting as many benefits from that because you are actually just consuming a lot of sugar in that drink. Emily and I could go off about Starbucks for like a full

Emily: 11:34

Oh my God. The Starbucks matcha. The Starbucks matcha is not real matcha. I will say that. Like, I don't mean to be elitist, but like, it's, it's so, it's so not like it's a fun, fun drink, but yeah, it's, it's just, it's just not the same.

Vanessa: 11:48

Yeah, so, so there's, you know, factors like that that are gonna come in too. And I guess, you know, really quickly since we're talking about that, I can address one of those questions that we had gotten about matcha. And we can talk about this more too when we talk about like preparing matcha, but if you should ever add sweetener to it Milk versus water and should it be a coffee sub, which obviously we're talking about at the moment. So one matcha, especially depending on what kind you get, it may be very, very bitter. And depending on what you like and if you like bitter things like me, then that's probably fine to just drink with water. If you are not of a fan, things that are bitter. You may want to add a little bit of sweetener, maybe you add a little bit of honey or maple syrup or you know, whatever sweetener you like. Or maybe you add a touch of milk. There's nothing wrong with doing that. But I think it's good to recognize that sometimes like in the Starbucks case, like it goes kind of over.

Emily: 12:51

Yeah, totally. Like I think that a lot of the times I, I like the milk with it too, just because like you're also ingesting calories and size we're having in the morning, and I find like hardly anybody eats enough in the morning. And I know Vanessa finds the same thing. So, and then, you know, the extra protein boost, whatever. But yes, totally, like if you're trying to kind of wind down or give yourself sort of a health benefit, and then instead you give yourself a big blood sugar spike, it's just not gonna have the same effect that you would like it to have. Yeah.

Vanessa: 13:18

Well, and I think we should touch on too, cause I started on this and never really finished the thought, but like the coffee versus matcha argument, which should I drink? And my answer to that would be drink whichever one you like personally. Both are gonna have benefits. I mean, the antioxidant content in matcha is going to be higher and caffeine. Going to be slightly lower. Well, depending on what kind of coffee you're drinking, honestly, there's like a

Emily: 13:46

And what kind of matcha?

Vanessa: 13:48

Yeah,

Emily: 13:49

so much. How much you're having such a range.

Vanessa: 13:52

Something that a lot of people report. I feel like I hear this all the time. And maybe feel this anecdotally to Emily. I don't know if you came across this in research, anything that's like. you know, evidence of why this is, but a lot of people will report getting energy from matcha, but feeling less buzzy like they do with coffee. And anecdotally I feel like I experienced that as well. I am not. Do you know what the reason is behind that? Have you found any science behind that?

Emily: 14:25

So yes, I did actually come across this, and it's basically, at least this one study is saying that it's because the caffeine that is in matcha binds with the phytonutrients, which are some of the antioxidants that Vanessa and I are talking about. And then specifically altheine in a way that slows the absorption of caffeine. So people say that the caffeine buzz from matcha lasts longer. And that it's like a slower release. So I don't know, like there's not tons of research to explain that. But a lot of the times with coffee, like you're, you're, you are getting a big spike, especially if you're having like multiple espresso shots you're probably gonna end up consuming more caffeine overall. So that could be it too. Or like if you have black coffee with no, like milk or anything, or you're having matcha lattes with like a bunch of soy milk or something, that's gonna be different too.

Vanessa: 15:16

Yeah. So yeah, that might be something to think about if you are a coffee drinker, but you're feeling like shaky, weird energy after you have coffee that you do not like, maybe it's time to try matcha. But yeah, it's, it's kind of all, all personal.

Emily: 15:32

And it's kind of funny, like, I think the, the one like, you know, usually we're like, okay, now what's like the bad side of something? Like what's the negative or something. And I feel like with matcha, it really is like the caffeine. Like it's not like there's, there is caffeine in it, right? So if you're having like you know, research will tell you and. all of the matcha selling websites will tell you definitely that about two grams of matcha per day is a good amount to seed these benefits that we're talking about, and that's about two servings of a half teaspoon per day. And you know, that's like anywhere really to like, I mean it depends how strong you're making it, whatever, but other studies about tea in general, matcha like two to five cups per day to receive the health benefits and that can be quite a bit of caffeine when it really comes down to it. Matcha can have up to 45 milligrams of caffeine per gram. So I mean, if you're having like five cups like that, that is quite a bit. So I think that's just kind of the one thing where like it's not totally. exempt from any criticism about caffeine also, and I think in our society and with how much anxiety impacts so many people, I think that, and we know that caffeine is a big impact on anxiety, so it's definitely like a piece of the matcha conversation too, in my opinion.

Vanessa: 16:49

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, again, that's gonna be individualized even with just your personal caffeine tolerance, which is going to vary person to person. So Yeah. Drink drink at your own risk I mean, there's really no risk other than you might, like, you might feel feral if you have too much, much

Emily: 17:11

Yeah,

Vanessa: 17:11

due to the caffeine levels. The only other cautions, I guess with matcha, since we're talking about that would be if you're on a blood thinner. And this would be with all green tea, just cause it has vitamin K and not that, you know, it would completely eliminate. Or like wipe out your blood thinner would not work anymore. You could still drink macho or green tea if you're on a blood thinner. You would just wanna make sure you're drinking it consistently so you're drinking the same amount every single day. The other thing, and this again would be with all green tea, is if you have any risk or history of calcium oxalate containing kidney stones. And that could just increase your risk. Drinking green tea in general, not just matcha. but obviously those are pretty like specific cases, but just in case anyone out there is on Warfarin or is getting kidney stones,

Emily: 18:09

definitely. It's, it's good advice and I, I think there's such a like world and there's so many different types of matcha and different types of teas in general

Vanessa: 18:20

so as far as different types of matcha well first of all, you wanna look for something, and this would be my suggestion as a dietician. I would look for something that doesn't have any added sugar. So not all matcha powders are gonna be just matcha. A lot of them may have other ingredients mixed in too. my personal opinion on that would be, I would rather you buy the pure matcha and then if you want to add milk or some sweetener doing that afterwards. But I think to get the benefits of matcha, it's more beneficial to get that pure product. Because basically what that company is doing is matcha is. They can add those other ingredients to make it cheaper. So they're kind of helping their bottom line by doing that too.

Emily: 19:12

Yeah, a hundred percent. They're literally cutting the macho with like cheap filler shit. And I mean, that's, that's the thing. Like I just don't want, like, you just don't need to spend your money on that. Like there's other like machos one, like great hack honestly for macho, like before you get into the types. But like you can go to your Asian grocery store and get like a big old bag of organic matcha and. that would be a fabulous option. So you can hit up your local H Mart, something like that. And a lot of the times those are not sweetened or anything at all.

Vanessa: 19:42

And something to note about that if you do buy a big old bag make sure you like it first before you buy that big old bag or, or you're making making sure you're gonna use it because it does not last forever. So it has its shelf life is about two. So you wanna make sure you're being kind of cognizant of that, maybe storing it in the fridge or something like that, just to maintain that purity. But so after, you know, we weed out all of those matches that have added sugar or added whatever in them. We're just getting down to the pure matcha. There are ceremonial and culinary grade matches. So the ceremonial is going to be a little bit pricier. And it. Typically has a more mellow flavor. So if you are someone who is planning on drinking matcha just with water, you might tend towards that ceremonial grade just because it's gonna be a little bit less bitter. And then the culinary version is kind of your. Step. And that is, you know, a little bit less pricey and is gonna be great. Especially if you're gonna add in some sweetener, some milk or something like that. Cuz it may be just a little bit more bitter. So that is kind of the skinny on the different types of matcha. So really our biggest caution here whether you decide to buy ceremonial grade or culinary grade, do do what you would like there. The biggest difference is going to be expense and. Flavor, either being more bitter, bitter, or a little bit more mellow. But just, I mean, don't bother with those products that are being cut. Again, it's just if you wanna add sweetener, you wanna add milk, do that yourself. It's gonna be more beneficial for you wise, or getting the benefits out of that t to do it that. So matcha? Yes,

Emily: 21:37

I feel like I feel like with matcha, it really, really does come down to price point because you could get like wild, like there's like really expensive versions out there and a lot of them talk about like, there's third party testing for heavy metals. Like that can be sometimes a part of matcha, like the way that they harvest it. I don't know too much about that, just sort of like out of the nutrition realm. But there's like a lot of different things that you can do. Peak life. Tea Matcha definitely does like a ton of testing. It's like one of the most expensive, right? I usually like buy it on a subscription and then like cancel my subscription Sorry about it. Um, But like there's definitely a lot of different things on it that can get confusing. So I like how you just put it into the two different categories of being like, okay, this is what's gonna be a little more budget friendly. And then this is like, Higher amount, but really like, you know, whatever you can afford, if you're really looking to make it a part of your routine, is gonna be helpful.

Vanessa: 22:31

Yes. And then there is a particular way to prepare matcha, so it's not just. You know, as we mentioned, you're eating the whole ground leaf so you're not just like steeping it with a teabag like you might with a normal green tea or any other kind of tea. So this is, we started the episode talking about me and my barrier to entry being the matcha whisk. So that is something else you would want to invest in to invest, invest the$10.

Emily: 23:03

Like$45 tea,

Vanessa: 23:05

To make your matches successfully. Something else you can use is a little like metal strainer, so that'll help you get out any clumps so you don't have a clumpy tea. But basically what you'll do is you would put some of your matcha powder into a bowl and then pour a little bit of hot water on it, and then you would whisk it back and forth so you're not whisking it like you would with like, you know. Like you were baking, like we kind of do like a circular motion when we're baking. With matcha, you're gonna go straight back and forth, kinda rigorously. And once that is all mixed up, you would, you know, tap with the rest of your hot water. And then any sweetener milk that you wanted to add.

Emily: 23:46

Yeah. And if mine's ever turns out clumpy, I'm just like spooning the clumps and like eating them because I'm like, listen, I paid for this. I want all these I'm just like, like so nasty. Just eating the clumps that are leftover. I'm not gonna lie to you.

Vanessa: 24:01

Yeah, and so you should, you should get a nice foam too. Especially if you use that method to whisk. If you'd whisk in that circular motion like you're baking, you won't get that nice foam that you normally see with matcha.

Emily: 24:15

and you're gonna get that pretty green

Vanessa: 24:16

Yeah, beautiful green color. It really is a beautiful, beautiful tea.

Emily: 24:23

It definitely is, and I think it's like one of those things when we think about like eating, like colorfully or eating green foods or whatever, like macho and teas in general, they're a great option for people that don't eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. Like it's a very like, like they're still, they have some of those same properties, those phytonutrients and antioxidants that we love about fruits and vegetables. So I think that's also somebody who could kind of benefit from matcha in general, or tea really,

Vanessa: 24:51

Yes. Ab absolutely. And that's something too, I, I wanna bring this up cause as I was looking into the research, I was thinking, which we find this with food a lot where, you know, it'll say something like, more research needs to be done, or there's just not a ton out there, especially human studies and or, Instead of actual matcha, they're using green tea extract. I saw that a ton. Like they're supplementing green tea extract, which is great, but I was like, can we not just get some people together and be like, this group is drinking matcha every morning. This group is drinking coffee every morning. Like, how hard is that study to set up? Like I, maybe we couldn't do that with our listeners. We can. Our own little wellness mess study. And then obviously the truth like hit me hard after that. And the truth is like there's just not enough money to be made to conduct those kind of studies. So they're probably never gonna do them. So if you're waiting, waiting, waiting for more science on that, it's probably not gonna come out unless you conduct the study or wellness mess does, which I am actually thinking about at this.

Emily: 25:56

We might,

Vanessa: 25:58

it would be hard to control for like there's a lot of variables that I think would

Emily: 26:03

people would

Vanessa: 26:04

tough. Yeah. But I think it'd still be fun to try.

Emily: 26:09

I think like, I think another thing too is that like we don't always have so much research on things like this, like herbs and whatever in the western world. And so I think we can kind of, you know, look at history and look at sort of information from other places. And in this case it's like you're not gonna harm yourself. Like there's very few teas that you can completely overdose on if you're drinking like two cups a day. You know, the laxative teas or diet teas or metabolism teas, which are all laxative teas. You know, that's really like my only word to the why's at the end of this episode that, you know, I think. That's something that we have to watch out for consistently. But other than that, you can sip away.

Vanessa: 26:55

Get to sipping. So one last thing I wanted to bring up before we close this out, which that would've been a really great way to end. This was sip away, but I'm sorry. There's

Emily: 27:04

I know. I was feeling

Vanessa: 27:05

I want to add. I know Emily's like we're done

Emily: 27:08

this is better.

Vanessa: 27:10

but because I mean, Skin, skin health. We love vanity. We love beauty. And one of the studies that I looked at actually had to do with drinking matcha in skin health. And they found that because of match's anti-inflammatory effects, it helped with irritated skin. And they also found that the tannins actually helped reduce sebum production and oily skin. So it potentially could be effective in someone who has acne prone skin.

Emily: 27:48

Wow, that's amazing. And I mean, you do see it like in products and there's definitely like matcha face masks and things like that, so that's, that's really interesting and doesn't surprise me very much.

Vanessa: 27:59

Yeah. So definitely if you are someone who you know, has oily or acne prone skin or you know that your acne is because you have oily skin, I mean, why not try some matcha, especially if you like it anyway,

Emily: 28:15

Yeah, definitely. That's awesome.

Vanessa: 28:17

so get to sipping that matcha. I am now like impatiently waiting for the morning because I really want a.

Emily: 28:25

I'm so excited to hear about your whisk adventures.

Vanessa: 28:28

It's in the Amazon cart.

Emily: 28:31

Okay. Ready to go.

Vanessa: 28:33

So hopefully you enjoyed learning all about matcha. We will be hopefully putting out episodes every week. Emily and I have just been struggling to find time in our busy schedules and we work our time zones too. So there's a lot of variables and we somehow always find time to talk. I said I need to get like a podcast microphone for my car because we still don't worry, we're still talking to each other a lot, but it's like, you know, just brief things here and there. Like I'm driving somewhere, she's driving somewhere, we're going to the next thing. We always catch each other then. So don't worry. We're still talking a lot, but we just haven't been able to record it as.

Emily: 29:15

Yeah, a hundred percent. We wanna get back to it. So hopefully we'll see a lot more from us very soon.

Vanessa: 29:21

Bye.