Emily: 0:00

Hey everybody. Welcome to wellness. Miss the podcast where we take a hard look at the nutrition and wellness industry through a no bullshit lens. My name is, and I'm an anti-intuitive eating ed diet and yoga.

Vanessa: 0:13

And my name's Vanessa. I am also a registered dietician and I specialize in hormone. Emily. And I met back in college when we were studying to be dieticians and we basically never left each other's side. Since the moment we met and post grad, we haven't really left each other's side either we live across the country from each other, but that hasn't stopped us from being business partners and talking almost every minute of every day.

Emily: 0:40

Let's get into this week's episode.

Vanessa: 0:56

We are talking about Octavia. That's gonna take a lot of brain training for me to pronounce that the right way. Cause I really wanna say Octavia, but Octavia, the diet excited to talk about that. We really, neither of us had much knowledge on this, but we had a few requests to record an episode on it Wow.

Emily: 1:18

it's, there's a lot to unpack there. Like I have had a couple people, like a couple of my clients have been around people doing this diet and apparently it's like really popular, just encircles that VAs and I must not be in. But I really have heard so much about it and really like recently too. So hopefully this finds someone who is really searching for information about this. And we have definitely a lot of. Things to chat about with this diet. But first we have two things to tell you. Number one, We're starting the next round of our group coach in May. You can find all the information. We'll link it in the show notes this time too. But it's nutrition for gals.com/the Harmony program. All about hormone balancing, intuitive eating, stress management, gut health really just kind of a lot of holistic health points. And we have space left, so we would love to have.

Vanessa: 2:11

Yeah, we're really excited. This is the third time we'll be running this program and hopefully we've been making it a little bit better every time, so we're excited to see you there. Next thing on the agenda, I'm excited to talk about this. Gwenny P is going off in the news once again.

Emily: 2:30

you love calling her Gwenny P. You love calling her Gwen. It's Gweneth Paltrow. For anyone who might not refer to her as Gwenny P.

Vanessa: 2:36

AKA Gwenny P. So our old friend, Gwen, she did an interview with, I don't even know who it was with, but it's all over the internet because basically she gives her version of what she eats every day, and I mean, she's starving herself.

Emily: 2:56

Oh my God. I mean, so she starts off talking about breakfast, how she drinks, something that's not gonna spike her blood sugar like coffee. So she just has like caffeine on an empty stomach. I'm like, okay, interesting choice.

Vanessa: 3:10

Hearing. That should cue you to know she does not know what she's talking about. Because if she's drinking just plain coffee, I'll, I guess maybe I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she's putting something in there that is balancing her blood sugar or like keeping her blood sugar stable. But if she's just drinking caffeine, That is spiking her blood sugar. So she literally starts with something that isn't gonna spike my blood sugar like coffee. Okay. What,

Emily: 3:39

totally false. And then for lunch.

Vanessa: 3:41

go ahead. We're both so excited to talk about this.

Emily: 3:45

we really are. For lunch, she has some sort of soup and I was like, okay. Hmm. And then she's like, yeah, like bone broth. I was like, oh, alright. So like, again, like super light, like no calories, like not at all. And then dinner, she said she leans more paleo, like she eats a lot of vegetables centered meals. But then there's like a big twist to this conversation too. Like already as a dietician you're like, okay, that's definitely not enough calories, definitely not enough protein. Like definitely not enough fat, but like then she has this whole twist that she throws in there with what else she does in her wellness routine.

Vanessa: 4:20

I don't know if I know about this.

Emily: 4:22

Oh, you haven't seen the second part. Okay. So basically like then the guy interviewing her is like, oh, well I see you have an IV on you right now, like an IV pod, whatever. She's getting like IV vitamins, so she's like, yeah, okay, so you haven't seen this part. So then she's like, yeah, I love doing like glutathione. I love doing all these different like vitamins and minerals and like, you know, just getting all of my needs like through an iv. So she does that like consistently and she like really makes, it sounds like it's kinda like a daily thing that she does.

Vanessa: 4:54

Oh my God.

Emily: 4:56

Yeah. And it's really weird because, but it's like just goes to show like, okay, people are like, wow, I can do what Gwyneth Paltro does and I could like, you know, eat like the way she does during the day. Yeah. But she has access to these like really expensive IV treatments, so like Sure, that makes sense. Why she's probably not deficient in a lot of those things. She's probably very well hydrated. Like there's probably a lot of like other boons that she has to. Having all these vitamin like infusions constantly. And so she probably doesn't feel like really shitty from her bad diet, but it's like, it's just so funny cuz it just goes to show like how unattainable that is for like the rest of the world. And she's really giving advice here and it's like, what the fuck? It makes no sense.

Vanessa: 5:37

Well, and maybe she is meeting her needs. I'm curious what you think on this. I was looking at the video of her. and to me, like from if I was doing a nutrition assessment on her, like a physical nutrition assessment, her hair does not look good and like not from a stylist point of view or anything like that, from like a nutrient point of view. Like your hair and nails are really important, like key things. when you meet with a dietician, if you're meeting with them in person, we're looking at those things too. Cause those are indicators of are you getting enough protein? Are you getting enough vitamins and minerals? And it does not look like it. Maybe it's bad video, maybe she is. But from the video I saw, her hair looks broken, and to me that's like a red flag that she's not getting enough.

Emily: 6:27

Yeah, that could totally be it. I think people don't really realize as dieticians, like we do like nutrition focused physical assessments that might reach things like you might get done in the hospital to see if you're malnourished. But like even just looking at someone and the way that they might have like. Protrusion of their collarbone or wasting in their face, like their cheeks are kind of sung in. Like there's all sorts of things that like we can look at and I doubt like whatever work she's had done, like there's no way we could actually make an assessment on her face. And we're not her dieticians anyways. But if we were we would definitely have a lot of things that we'd wanna check out on her after hearing about this practice that she does on a daily basis.

Vanessa: 7:04

Yeah. Yeah. I saw one Instagram post that you know, was a combination of this interview and this person's talking about it and they're just sitting there like, so this is a how to of how to starve yourself. Like this is what she's telling us to do, how to starve yourself,

Emily: 7:25

It's so scary. It's so scary.

Vanessa: 7:28

yeah, it's very scary. also, you know, we can kind of laugh about it, but we know that there are people that are going to want to or are going to follow that. Exactly. And like Emily said, especially, you know, she might have nutrient deficiencies, but if she does doesn't, it's because she has all these extra things because she is a multimillionaire and that's not how most people can live their. So it's just presenting a completely unattainable way of living.

Emily: 8:02

and it's very clear that she is someone that is listened to. Like not only does she have like all her little Netflix shows, whatever, but also, I mean we've done episodes like that kind of center around things that she really supports, like medical medium or intuitive fasting slash like intermittent fasting. I think we kind of bundled those together, but you can go back and listen and those are just really. Stark examples of problematic behavior and language that she just continues to put in the mainstream. So yeah, no points for her today. We're annoyed

Vanessa: 8:35

No. and one of the medical medium, I don't know. One of their people came at us on Instagram and Emily We just kinda laughed at the comment. But I mean, these people, like, they want your head for saying something bad about the medical medium. It's kind of crazy. It's almost it. It's to a weird culty level

Emily: 9:01

just about to say like the God complex that he has is already set in place and he's just waiting for his followers to like turn into disciples, I think.

Vanessa: 9:09

Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, that's not what we're talking about today.

Emily: 9:14

on our main, it's gonna be a third of our episode, but we're not talking about it. we're, we're gonna talk about Octavia which Vanessa and I have both been pronouncing Octavia, so like we might accidentally mess up throughout the episode, so forgive

Vanessa: 9:27

I Almost guarantee I'm gonna mess up, but Emily probably won't.

Emily: 9:32

I'm serious about getting things right on the naming. Well, I mean, reasonable that we have some confusion because Octavia Octavia used to be called Meta Fast and they changed the name.

Vanessa: 9:46

And the reason they changed the name is because Manifest got sued because they are another pyramid scheme. So just quick brand change. Optivia is born this new diet that is apparently all the rage and is actually number five, was voted number five, best diet program from US Health and.

Emily: 10:12

Oh my God. That's really, that's really concerning.

Vanessa: 10:15

yeah. Number five, best diet number two and best fast weight loss. That should be a scary thing to you right away because weight loss and fast are not words that go together.

Emily: 10:29

No. And I think, you know, really first off, I just wanna outline what the diet is because some of you might not know, and it's worth just kind of like getting our. Foundation lined up, but basically the plan ranges from about six small meals per day. And that's sort of like, you can do that in a variety of different things. Like you can do five Octavia packaged meals and one meal on your own. You can do like four and two and one, you can do three and three. Like there's all sorts of different things that they sort of prescribe. These are for all people, like it's just six small meals. These are the servings. Like it doesn't seem like it varies per like body size or person like whatsoever, which is sort of your first red flag, aside from the fact that it's literally an MLM period, pyramid scheme type of situation. But aside from that, that's basically like what the gist is and that they teach people to just eat in this lower calorie way, this small meal way. And then you lose like an as load of weight and it happens like pretty quickly usually. Although it's funny because really though, like median, I've heard like even like anecdotally, like people losing like 70 pounds or something when they first do it, then gaining it all back, of course, but. initially losing a lot, but it actually on their website says that their typical user loses 12 pounds within 12 weeks. So that's 12 pounds in three months, which technically would like fit into the like healthy guideline of intentional weight loss. But anyways so basically like it's by their little meals and stuff and you will be on their.

Vanessa: 12:07

So this plan, this meal, the meals I have you on at the beginning, it's 800 to a thousand calories a day. That is less than the amount that a two year old needs that is starving yourself.

Emily: 12:22

like some, some people could need, like, like larger framed men might need up to like 3000 calories. Like that would be really like standard. Like it's not, and also your needs fluctuate, right? I mean, Vanessa's a hormone dietician, like she'll tell you like, your needs might be different at certain times of the month, whatever.

Vanessa: 12:39

Well, and they are saying that part of their regimen is movement. And if you're only eating 800 calories a day, I do not know how you could possibly have the energy to work out. or have like a good workout. I mean, maybe you could go for a walk but you're definitely not doing intense workouts at 800 calories or you're not doing them well.

Emily: 13:04

No, like you're gonna be more prone to injury a thousand percent. But like even, and this is like another experience where I was, I was having dinner with my friend who's a dietician couple nights ago, and she was saying she knew someone that did it, one of their friends, and that he couldn't even fold laundry. Like he had to take breaks. Folding laundry, which like folding laundry is movement and a chore and doing laundry is movement. Like people don't really count that. But it totally is. And so for you not to be able to do like a basic household chore is like, really, that's a really, really bad sign. Like, that's not normal.

Vanessa: 13:38

Yeah. That is insane. I was looking at their examples of plan approved snacks. Did you look at that?

Emily: 13:46

I looked quite a bit at their online.

Vanessa: 13:49

Well, one of their examples of a plan approved snack was three celery sticks. I saw that and I was like, fuck off.

Emily: 14:00

What?

Vanessa: 14:01

three celery sticks.

Emily: 14:03

No, I, oh my God, this is so funny. Like I just had a client, and maybe, maybe they won't be listening to this, but on their favorite foods, they put on their, like, intake form, they put celery and I was like, wow, I've never met someone with like celery as their favorite food. And then like, now that we've been working together for like months and months, they're like, oh, that was a total lie. Like, I just put that because that's like the diet food. Like, I just thought like, oh, I'm meeting this person, I wanna like impress her or whatever. And I was like, yeah, that's, it's so true. It's just like the quintessential diet food. And it doesn't surprise me at all that that would be one of their snacks.

Vanessa: 14:38

Another of their snacks is a half cup of sugar free gelatin.

Emily: 14:43

They do push the protein, but that's kind of what they, what all these diets do because like you would, you'd like be close to death without it.

Vanessa: 14:52

They push protein, yes, but they also push essentially their foods, which is like space food. I mean, it's just these weird looking meals that have weird ingredients and are like sugar free. Everything. it's, it's so funny to me because they're promoting a healthy lifestyle here and they're literally depleting you of nutrients. So really they're just promoting weight loss, which that's fine. That's part of their spiel too. But then we'll see, you know, they try to tie things together with, okay, they're that you can lose 12 pounds in. Okay. But they'll automatically say, and according to, you know, this research, by losing 12 pounds, you can decrease your heart disease and diabetes, whatever, you know, risk factors for all of these diseases. Okay? They are not saying we have studied this in our people that have lost this weight or our clients, they're just connecting data from something else to weight loss is the only factor, and I can guarantee that you are not becoming a healthier person after this diet. So,

Emily: 16:12

No.

Vanessa: 16:12

I don't think you're improving any of your risk factors for diseases, but they're going to tie that data, even though there is no tie. It's just being like, oh, well losing weight means this. They're not studying that in their clients. They're just pulling data from other

Emily: 16:30

they're not looking at long-term effects of on your metabolism, of you losing all that weight quickly. And they're obviously not looking at the internalized fat phobia that we deal with in mainstream medicine. And that can be like the reason why like people have these better outcomes at a smaller body size as well. It's kind of funny, like the, they cite a few research articles. It's funny, they don't link them, they just write them out at the bottom of their page. So I'm like, Hmm, like why is this not hyperlinked? But I found them and it's really Fascinating. Like they have one where it's a study of 198 people and they're like, oh my God, look like they lost weight. And this is actually on the opti via plan. So actually like this, this was like their own stuff that they studied, included, like telephone coaching the reduced calorie guide or like the self-directed reduced calorie control diet. And they basically found that they had significant. reductions in weight. Like I think it was like 6% of body weight they lost. And it literally was a 16 week study. like that's it. So it's like they follow them, they're like, look, it worked. And it's like, okay, show me something longer, which no diet can show you anything that goes beyond like, I mean the five year mark is like, forget about it. Like everybody's gained the weight back plus some according to research. So it's just funny. It's just so funny like that they really are like, this is gonna convince people. And it does sadly because people are, are desperate. But it's like, it's, I can't believe, like a 16 week study. And they're like, look, we tested 198 people in 16 weeks, and here you go, guys. Like, what the hell? It's so, it's so wrong. It doesn't make any sense. Like 16 weeks does not impress me, and it shouldn't impress anybody.

Vanessa: 18:13

Well, and the other problem with diets like this is they're so rigid, like the five in one plan, for example. So they're giving you five meals that are up, up to via, Ugh, God, that's hard. Opt to via meals. You have one meal by yourself, that's another prescribed meal, or has to be pre-approved by them.

Emily: 18:36

Yeah. The lean and green they call it.

Vanessa: 18:39

Yes. The lean and green meal. How does that leave any room for life? If you wanna go out to eat, if you go to a friend's house for dinner, if you go to a family gathering, if you do anything

Emily: 18:52

if you're out of town, if you're injured, if you're grieving and you can't eat, like all of these like natural life things that come up that are not supported by this, like this has to be the only thing that you're concerned about doing in this moment. If that's like what you're, like, you have to devote all of your energy to this because you're not gonna have very much energy because you're not eating and that it's just so like, it's so, it's just so restrictive. It hurts to see there's. did you see like we have to talk a little bit more about their products because did you see like the essential, optimal kit?

Vanessa: 19:28

I did not,

Emily: 19:29

So it's

Vanessa: 19:30

looking pictures of like their mac and cheese and stuff like that, and I was just oiling.

Emily: 19:36

it's so bad. Like so, and the other thing too is like, this is pretty expensive. Like I always like to touch on the price points because that's why they're in this business, is to make money and. specifically this kit that's for the five and one plan. That's basically like, okay, you know, you have five of the opt via meals and then you have one of your own like leading green thing. It's basically just like green vegetables and like protein. But it's cost$395 and there's 120 servings per container. So that's 300 and.$95 for like, but you need five of these meals a day. Like that's literally like 25 days of meals. like it's not even like a month worth of like their meals and you're paying$350 plus you have to do like your own extra meal on the side. Like this isn't like cost savings by any means. And you know, like you're the only person, like all these meals are like just one person. It's not like, oh, it costs me like$8 to make this pasta bake for my family that like we can all eat twice, you know?

Vanessa: 20:38

Yeah.

Emily: 20:39

it's really quite cost prohibitive.

Vanessa: 20:43

and you're paying a lot of money to starve yourself.

Emily: 20:47

Right, and you're not even getting like your normal food and even like, like they sell like box mac and cheese. Like Vanessa was saying, it's seven servings for$25.

Vanessa: 20:58

I mean, and this is not high quality food either,

Emily: 21:02

and they say it's all just fillers. It's literally just fillers, like sorg, like random, like gums and gels and, and also too, they're like, oh yeah, this mac and cheese is high in protein. It's 11 grams. Like, I would not say that's super high in protein. That's like a regular ass mac and cheese.

Vanessa: 21:22

Well, and if you were to make mac and cheese, say with like a banza pasta, let's say you're actually trying to make your mac and cheese pretty high protein. I mean, a banza pasta is gonna have about 20 grams of protein per serving and then adding, you know, the cheese and whatever else you add to your mac. that's a high protein, mac and cheese. It's also going to be higher calorie, but that's okay.

Emily: 21:49

Right. And the thing is too, even fucking wheat pasta, like even wheat pasta has like a decent amount of protein, like wheat pasta noodles alone could be like nine grams of protein per serving.

Vanessa: 22:02

right?

Emily: 22:03

I mean, and you know, whatever, maybe you get white noodles and that's fine, but it's just like, it's just funny cuz it's like what they're marketing is something that like is arguably worse than like the standard meal that you would eat like for your health in so many different ways. Like it truly is, like Vanessa said, the only only thing is all about just losing weight.

Vanessa: 22:24

Yep, a hundred percent. And it seems like, unfortunately, that has grabbed a lot of people. which stinks because especially for Emily and I, which we're obviously dieticians and we're in the business of making people healthier and you see these kind of things, these diets that are in the business of like basically making people sick. I mean, you're on this diet for three months, let's say, and then, then they have you move into the maintenance phase. You get 1500 calories, which is also so low. It's insane.

Emily: 23:01

most people.

Vanessa: 23:02

But you're on this diet for three months, you are potentially causing, you know, nutrient deficiencies and that can rak havoc on your health. You're throwing your hormones out of balance, potentially. You're throwing everything out of balance, and that can take a long time to recover from.

Emily: 23:20

also like your whole life. Like that's the thing. Like you're gonna be irritable, you're not gonna be able to be there for your family in the way that you want to and show up in your job. Like all of these things are going to be affected by this low of food. It's not our opinion, it's just the facts. And one other thing too, like before we move off of the products is that they do have a calorie burn drink. I dunno if you saw us, Vanessa. It's. Hidden. And it's basically like literally just a hundred milligrams of caffeine. So it's like, oh yeah, I get that. You need to be having a pretty good caffeine intake to kind of stave off your appetite. So I think, and that's apparently limited to three per day. So I think like they're trying to kind of use this in tandem to be like, okay, like this is gonna help, like stifle those hunger and fullness cues, which like a stifled hunger and fullness cue response. Really negative for you because that's your body's biological way of understanding when it needs food and when it doesn't. And you really need that connection. So it's, it's hard to know that this is part of that and that they're actively trying to stifle your body's natural response.

Vanessa: 24:26

Okay, so I am looking, I just wanted to see the ingredients. They have a chocolate peanut butter shake mix, so in that the ingredients are way peanut flour, sunflower oil, sugar. Maltodextrin, cacao, enin, erythritol. Like there's like five gums,

Emily: 24:54

So many gums. So many gums.

Vanessa: 24:56

Oh my gosh. It's, it's not great.

Emily: 25:00

and it's just hilarious because like the same people I feel like who are shilling this, like in their MLM scheme, like they're also being like, don't eat chemicals and don't eat this. It's like, well that's literally what you guys are eating and that's in fact the only thing you're eating. Like it's so, it's so hard. Like none of it is like an actual food and all mean, talk about the lack of fiber in some of those situations.

Vanessa: 25:27

Well, and even for this like chocolate peanut butter shake mix, which I guess maybe this is supposed to be, I don't know if it's supposed to be more of a dessert versus a smoothie, but if I'm looking at it as like a shake, like a meal replacement, if I was telling someone, or you know, if I was giving someone a smoothie recipe or something like that, some kind of shake recipe, I can guarantee it would not have any added sugar in it because just why? This one has nine grams of, or eight grams of added sugar. And just why?

Emily: 26:01

Just because it tastes so bad because there's no other flavoring in it that they just rely on that, and that's like such a, such a common thing.

Vanessa: 26:09

Yeah, like there's no fruits or veggies in this. It's just way gums and sugar.

Emily: 26:17

you know, just the ultimate, like, I think thing that we keep re need to reiterate is like, there's no evidence based information on this either. Like, there's one other study that they cite, like, so even it's like, okay, torture yourself, but at least still work. Like that's not even true. Like there's another study that they specifically link and it talks about kind of having coaching on weight mainten. And they talk about how, you know, they, cuz that's like their whole point is the coaches, which the coaches are just like other like MLM participants. Like they're not, they don't have any background. They're literally just like fellow pyramid scheme. Like they bought the$200 kit to start selling it. Like, that's it. But it's crazy because people initially lost 5% of their body weight in this study, and at 24 months, which I will give them like two years, is definitely like a longer, better time than other people. Again, this is only 190 people, also 88% white. But at 24 months, 65% of the participants had maintained their weight loss in the coaching group, and 50% in the tracking group maintained their weight loss. So it's like, okay. They're like so proud of these statistics when it's like it didn't work for half the people. Like, yeah, it, it resulted in less weight gain back because the other people were gaining back at like a higher rate, even. But what's so funny is like, they're literally like, wow, look, us coaching them for two years, like it helped at least half of'em keep it off. Like those are not good odds. Like they're not good odds at all. And and even still, that's only two years. Once again, we wanna see like three, four, and five years to like really see like where your sustainability was with that. But it's like there's no, yeah, it's funny, like even the things that they use to like boost themselves up are like, to me, not impressive at all.

Vanessa: 28:06

Yeah. Well, and I think it's interesting too cause I think our culture. Lends itself to this kind of thing just because it's always looking to the short term. For example, I wanna lose 12 pounds for my vacation in three months. So this is the perfect quick fix, but is your plan to lose 12 pounds, which you may do, and then gain back 20 after your vacation? like is your plan to feel your best and enjoy your vacation to the full extent, have energy feel really good.

Emily: 28:49

it's just not like, and the thing is too, like these people are really. Like they're creating lifetime customers because people do this and then they fall off the wagon and then they get back on and then they're selling it themselves even potentially. And that like gives you even more like, you know, identity is like wrapped up in this product. And it's funny, like there's videos of kind of the MLM aspect of it. And you know, it says like a lot of disclaimers, like these stories are not normal. Like there's a very small per percentage of the coaches and they have like a literal breakdown of like the income disclosure. And literally 20% of people that become coaches don't earn anything. And then the people that earn yearly between 50 per 50 grand a year to 200,000 grand is. one point or no, 2.2%.

Vanessa: 29:45

So it's like one person is making 200 grand.

Emily: 29:49

Right. And then the crazy thing is too, like, and this is in 2021, like these values aren't different, whatever. And like the highest percentage besides earning no money at 20% of people is like 14% of people earn a thousand to 2,500 a. which I think this kind of just brings us into like the realm of people doing this. Like when I was looking for people who either, I wasn't really looking for coaches, but like people who've done it, lots of like kind of middle-aged mom type of vibes. Kind of trying to like get their body back, quote unquote. And there was a lot of like reviews kind of where like people talked about this. A lot of them, it was crazy. Like this one said that how she was like, I actually fell off my running game. Like I was used to run every day and now I don't because I haven't been able to on Opta via because of like how low her energy was. She's like, but I did lose weight. So like, I guess it, it still was good and she was like, happy with it, but I'm like, So you lost like all of your exercise, like momentum and your movement plan like that sucks. So it's like just another classic thing of like, sure, maybe something happened that you're happy about and potentially even maybe something happened that was an improvement to your health, but like at what cost? It reminds me a lot of Whole 30 where like it's so, it's so insidious the way that it kind of get drops in these disordered eating patterns and restriction. And this is sort of similar where it's like, look like something good happened. Okay, but what about all the bad.

Vanessa: 31:23

Yeah. Well, and that makes me think too, if you think about if a lot of the population is potentially maybe. moms that are looking to kind of get their body back. And if you're a mom that's breastfeeding and you go on this diet, that's a great way for your breast milk to cut off.

Emily: 31:44

yeah,

Vanessa: 31:45

like, if you're planning on continuing breastfeeding, this is not gonna be for you. I, I mean, you need about 500 extra calories a day. You're hardly, I mean, you're barely eating over 500 calories, so that would not be great at all. Also, if you're someone who's, you know, trying to get your body back, your postpartum, being on a diet like this would be so dangerous, your postpartum body. how giving birth is a traumatic event for your body, and you need time to heal from that, and you need food to heal from that. So eating 800 calories a day, not gonna cut it. And you know, then we worry about, you know, what, what is the. What's gonna fall off here? Maybe your exercise or movement plans, which is really important for your health. Your energy and ability to take care of your kids, potentially. Your energy and ability to just do life. Be yourself which is just really scary.

Emily: 32:45

And I think like, honestly, my, my parting thoughts on this really are like, when you think of like, like if you're someone who's feeling tempted or upset or you know, like, oh my God, I'm just so desperate for this. And I, I like to touch on this always because like that's a lived experience that, you know, Vanessa and I are not like living ourselves. And I think like everyone has body autonomy and you can choose to do whatever you want, but I really like in those moments, I want you to kind of like take a step back and be like, okay, what do I actually. like, do I want to have the energy to play with my kids? Do I want to, you know, be able to be comfortable like in a bathing suit? Like there's a lot of different interventions that you can employ or you can get with a provider and start employing that. Have nothing to do with anything like this, but that are still gonna address your problems. So, you know, like, or are you looking for more control in your life? Like is this a way for you to kind of have a regimented situation? Like, okay, there's so many different things we can do besides like harming your body long term with a diet like this. And I think it's just really up to everyone to be so curious with themselves and to consistently ask these questions so that you don't find yourself just kind of trapped in this wild mlm.

Vanessa: 33:55

Well, and I think that people also have, Emily and I hear this all the time, where people have just this big distrust in themselves, in this distrust around food and eating, and so having us. Program that can provide you with meals and they're saying, this is going to work. We're giving you all your meals, I think can be very comforting to people because they think, okay, great. I don't trust myself making these decisions, so they're just gonna go ahead and make them for me, and I'm just gonna do that. And at the end of those, at the end of the day when those meals go away, unless you plan on eating that for the rest of your life, which most people probably don't, then.

Emily: 34:41

Yeah, you're just delaying the inevitable, like there is no shortcut to learning your body and understanding those cues and every path that you take that isn't. you know, really developing your intuition and leaning into your intuitive eating body, like it's all just. Setting you up for failure even more. And I think that's really important and that's definitely something that they don't touch on because that has to do more with like our perception of food and all those things. But yeah, it's like I get people want the control and want that perceived sort of plan and everything. And it's definitely the harder way to not do it. Like this might be easier. In a lot of ways things are planned for you, you know, you don't have to rely on yourself. Ultimately, it's gonna make your life a lot harder long term, so,

Vanessa: 35:29

They also, I just have to touch on this, one of the beginning things that they do. So they set you up with your coach and then I read that they give you this guide to like rate yourself on your food addiction.

Emily: 35:40

oh my God, no, I did not see that.

Vanessa: 35:44

Yeah. So

Emily: 35:45

such thing as food addiction. It's not a thing everybody.

Vanessa: 35:49

and if you're not addicted to food, then you're going to die because we need food to live.

Emily: 35:54

Yeah. Like, oh my God. There was, that was like, did you see my post on Ozempic today?

Vanessa: 35:59

Oh, I think I, I didn't read the whole thread, but I saw the first one.

Emily: 36:03

Yeah. Like it, it's kind of just this idea that I think is becoming really pervasive where it's like, I never think about or want food anymore. Is this what it's like to have a normal relationship with food? No. it's normal to want food. It's normal to enjoy food, and you would die without food. Like that is something that's really true. Like that's not, that's not an opinion. It is, you need to feel a desire to eat, and if you don't, you need to work with a provider. You need to see someone who's informed about that, like a dietician. it's, it's not good. Like you need food to live. That'd be like saying like, oh, I just don't wanna drink water anymore. I guess like I've just transcended my need for water. No, it's the same shit.

Vanessa: 36:45

and if you do feel out of control with foods, that is also something that many people struggle with is normal and is something that you can work with a provider. You don't have to continuously bear that on your own because that's really, if you do truly feel out of control, it can be hard to keep having to come to meals. Feeling like you don't have control in those situations. And again a great situation to start working with the provider.

Emily: 37:16

Totally. And I think we talk a lot about like, you know, restricting ourselves and feeling like we can't eat enough. But there's also the other side of the coin where, you know, you might be struggling with binge eating disorder, you might just be feeling like you're out of control around food. And again, like that's not something that's inherently wrong with you. Like that was a learned behavior. That is something that you've picked up over the years, maybe even starting as deep as childhood. And it can be worked through like there is treatment for these things and. Yeah, I really, I really just encourage you to reach out to a dietician if that's something that you're struggling with, because it shouldn't be dismissed either. It's definitely, you know, all roads lead to a dietician and no roads lead to Octavia. That's kind of like, that's just it at the end of the day.

Vanessa: 37:59

So in review, big thumbs down for APTA via from us

Emily: 38:04

But I also couldn't even think of something positive.

Vanessa: 38:07

I know I always try to think of something positive, you guys. I really do. But honestly, the three celery sticks as a snack pissed me off.

Emily: 38:17

It's sunny. We were angry today. There's just so many things. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, that's valid.

Vanessa: 38:24

thumbs down on everything today. I have no positivity to share

Emily: 38:30

Okay.

Vanessa: 38:30

than this was kind of, this was kind of a fun episode to record, honestly. And it was fun looking into it just cuz I didn't, I didn't really know anything about it. Obviously people, like Emily said, the circles were in are either, they're talking about optio behind our backs maybe, and they're like, these girls are dieticians. They're not gonna improve.

Emily: 38:50

Yeah. Which like that's your

Vanessa: 38:53

they're right.

Emily: 38:54

Yeah. We'll try to think of something more positive for next week, but if bullshit keeps coming out, then that's what we're gonna have to stay reporting on over here.

Vanessa: 39:03

exactly. Do you know who requested this episode? Should we give him a shout out?

Emily: 39:07

The person who requested wanted to stay anonymous.

Vanessa: 39:09

Thank you, anonymous These pyramid schemes are wild, you guys.

Emily: 39:18

Yeah. So thank you so much for the person that brought this to our attention. It was a very long time ago, an email that we got. But we really appreciate it. So we take requests all the time and let us know what you want us to talk about next.

Vanessa: 39:32

Something positive, hopefully.

Emily: 39:34

maybe.